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Subject: RE a call to witnesses
Replies: 30 Views: 1238
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 02:54am
''As a Jehovah's Witness you have been taught from the Bible and the Watchtower organization...''
Mate who taught you that wearing jewellery is evil?
*
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 02:56am
''Why are you not allowed to examine your own organization and its problems?''
mate it helps to know wot you are talking about coz Witnesses ARE allowed to examine everything for themselves. They given access to past literature. *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:00am
''Why does it tell you what to think and do?''
Mate does your church not tell you to be loving to others? Is it really a bad thing to be reminded to be approachable as Jesus was and to be caring, and loving and honest and have respect for others and treat every1 well even those who mistreat you? Is it really a bad thing to be reminded to keep good moral standards?
does your church not tell you Jesus is 'God the Son'...? that expression is not found anywhere in the Bible but ppl are made to think and believe its from the Bible *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:02am
''Have you checked the documentation from the Watchtower Magazine? ''
Yes, im not a blind follower. *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:05am
''How do you know that the Watchtower is correct? Because it says it is?''
Nope! I know its correct because of research. Because some church pastors have used articles from the Watchtower and Awake! magazines in their sermons quite a number of times and had bishops tell them it was the best sermon theyve heard in yrs!
Mate only a handful of Witneses were born and raised as Witnesses. Most came from churches. And trust me when theres hundreds of slanderers slandering about the Witnesses you dont just become a Witness so easily. you do all your homework to make sure wot they are saying is correct.
*
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:06am
''Unfortunately, as a Jehovah's Witness, you are only encouraged to study what the Watchtower and Awake magazines tell you to study.''
Youre allowed to study wot you want. Witnesses are free agents. On the contrary, ive been to houses and been told 'im not allowed to take your magazine because im belong to the ****** church' *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:08am
''You are instructed to not take any literature from apostate Christendom. This way, you will have far less opportunity to be challenged, something the Watchtower organization doesn't want to happen.''
Really now??? Mate you do realize we get challenged everytime we go from house to house? If the organization didnt want its members to be challenged they would tell them to stay in their houses and not discuss their beliefs with any1. THINK!
funny thing is I dont see many SDA going around telling ppl why it is bad to wear jewelry and make-up. Funny how I had such a hard time trying to find out from you which denomination you were from... I wonder why you didnt tell me until the 5th time I asked you. *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:11am
''The Watchtower Magazine teaches by asking the questions and giving the answers. Sometimes it even uses a Bible reference (often out of context) to back up what it says.''
Really..? You know, Ive been studying with Witnesses for 4yrs now and ALL the answers from my questions I asked them have been from the Bible. theyve answered me from the bible, not sometimes but ALL the time. And thats wot impressed me as I had never gotten any references from the bible when taught that God was 3in1 in other churches. They be always comparing God to an egg or to water, but no Bible reference. *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:12am
''It all looks good and sounds good from your perspective.''
When I first studied with witnesses after they left I would always do my OWN research to make sure wot I was being taught was right. And guess wot... it was right from other scholars perspectives as well, scholars who werent Witnesses. *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:15am
''The Bible alone is sufficient. But the Watchtower denies this:
From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago... [The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981]''
Read that quote again mate its doesnt deny that the Bible alone is sufficient! Youre trying to give a bad impression of the Witnesses as if they dont get their teachings from the bible. copying and pasting from anti witness sites really makes a bozo out of every1 who does it... read that quote aloud to yourself and see if its denying that the bible alone is sufficient. as you claim it does. Then read 2 timothy 3:16 *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:16am
''Funny thing is that, according to the Watchtower, if you study the Bible by itself, you will come to believe these things!''
The really funny thing before I started studying with witnesses I collected bibles then started reading them on my own and came to realize Jesus was actually the SON of God and not Jehovah himself. And that God had a name, Jehovah. At first I used shocked that many churches never taught this, And thats when I looked for a group that taught this. Yes, I went out and looked for the Jehovah's Witnesses. *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:19am
''Could it be that apart from the selected questions, answers, scripture quotes, and direction of the Watchtower teaching, that the Bible actually does teach these apostate doctrines? If you don't check for yourself, and only believe the Watchtower, you'll never know.''
Nope not really, the Bible doesn not teach that God is 3in1 thats why Trinitarians squeezed in 1 john 5:7 in the 16th century to try cement that idea that Jehovah God is a trinity. every1 checks everything for themselves befor becoming a witness
*
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:21am
''Do you want to trust your destiny into the teachings of several men headquartered in Brooklyn, New York who claim to be the directors of God's organization on earth? Do you?''
As I said most of the Witnesses come from churches. And with all the anti witness going on around the world and even in their homes they would 1st be absolutely sure that they double check everything before becoming a Jehovahs Witness. No one is forced to stay in the congregations. But guess wot ppl are staying and its growing *
unquiet1 10.04.11 - 03:23am
Yes mate as hard as is it to be a Witness, Jehovahs witnesses are actually growing! With the hundreds of websites dedicated to slandering witnesses the organization still grows. And guess wot... nothing you or anyone can do or say to stop it. Instead all this slandering makes Witnesses' faith grow! You've certainly added 5cents into making my faith stronger... thanks 
. *
elijah_2 10.04.11 - 04:44am
Bravo!!! Well said, that's what I Love to see, people that can back up and defend what they believe in (1 Peter 3:15). *
elijah_2 10.04.11 - 04:49am
However, I don't knwo where u got the Jewellery idea from, SDA does believe that people are not to make an adornment out in wearing Jewelleries, (1 Peter 3:3-4). But we not make it an issue of salvation, so I think u have the wrong information. *
elijah_2 10.04.11 - 04:53am
There are 28 Fundamental Beliefs that we stand upon, and when u get the time, please quote from the 28 Fundamental Beliefs where u see it says, anything about Jewellery. *
halman 10.04.11 - 02:40pm
That's what you like to see? But you've seen it before,elijah2, on the forums. As for jewelry, the Bible talks about being modest when it comes to adornment, including clothing and hairstyles.It means not being overly concerned with outward appearences,but to concentrate on the inner person.So,in itself,wearing jewelry isn't wrong,it's being extreme that is counseled against. *
elijah_2 10.04.11 - 05:15pm
No where do you see in our fundamental beliefs where we say Jewelry wearing is wrong. The thing is we dont make Jewelery wearing an issue. But we do encourage people to not wear jeweleries and ornaments, because it has roots from paganism, especially the wearing of earrings and nose jewels which was the pagans way of pleasing their gods. However, it is not a salvation base teaching. Similarly, we encourage a vegetarian diet, and we prefer if the members not eat flesh [meat] for various health reasons,but again its not going to keep people from obtaining salvation. On the contrary, we do have some people in our fellowship that will make an issue of wearing Jeweleries base on their OWN personal belief, but thats not the official stance of our Church on Jewelery wearing. If you notice Seventh Day Adventist does wear wedding ring. If you want to know what the church beliefs on a whole go to the SDA Adventist Official webstie *
halman 11.05.12 - 10:32pm
Then if wearing jewelry & eating meat does not prevent people from salvation,then no need to encourage the opposite,since God would not view it as an issue. However,if we go beyond what the Scriptures teach,then that is a different matter... *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:24pm
My Friend i would believe that ur organization doesn't encourage its members not salute a flag; However, if one of its member should have saluted a flag. I would like to believe that the person has not lose their salvation. *
elijah_2 12.05.12 - 03:33pm
Inaddition: i already made it known to you; and you can do your own research on this; that 'nose piercing, ear piercing, and most of other piercings comes from pagan origins; especially in the African Nations as a way of appeasing the gods. And so i cant see how is it wrong to encourage members not to follow after these pagan practices even though the Bible doesn't explicitly say Don't wear Jeweleries *
halman 5.06.12 - 10:34pm
Doesn't encourage it's members not to salute a flag? I think you've mistyped there. We view saluting a flag as an idolatrous act, and have been persecuted by nationalists because they don't understand the issue.What does God think of idolatry and idolatrous acts? You know,and compromising can be just as bad in God's eyes. Remember Shadrach,Meshach & Abednego,ordered to bow before the great image? While they stood with everyone else, they refused to bow down along with them. Now,while nations' emblems & flags represent their sovereignty,and we as Christians are to show respect to the state authorities,we do not idolize these things as others do. We take no part in nationalistic fervour or acts of saluting. In Roman times,Christians were thrown to the lions because of refusing one simple act,that of offering incense to Ceasar who was revered as a god. They could have saved themselves and their children by compromising,but they refused and suffered the consequences. So we don't salute flags but neither do we show disrespect by spitting on them or tearing them to shreds. *
halman 5.06.12 - 11:20pm
Now,you said that wearing jewelry isn't a salvation issue,so then,it doesn't matter does it? Can you see what I'm getting at? However,there are extremes that people of the world go to,when it involves peircings. Regarding jewelry in Bible times,not all was viewed as pagan,and even Jehovah himself uses it in a figurative way,when describing his love for Jerusalem in Ezekiel 16:11,12. Bracelets,chain necklace,earrings and nosering are mentioned,though the KJV says a jewel on thy forehead. A marginal note takes us to Isaiah 3:21 where nose jewels is mentioned. The Hebrew word is ne'zem,& can be applied to an earring,depending on the context. So God used these figuratively. Of course,he then carries on with his denouncement against Jerusalem's spiritual w dom or prostitution. *
halman 5.06.12 - 11:37pm
We,as Jehovah's Witnesses,are counselled from the Bible to be balanced,& moderate in habits.That includes how far we go in wearing jewelry & types of clothing & hairstyles. It's about not going to either extreme. Of course,our men don't wear earrings because of how it is viewed as a worldly fashion today,and neither will we wear crosses since it is from pagan worship. The wearing of a cross and symbol of it on the cover of early Watchtower magazines, was discontinued in the early part of the 20th century. As for your comment in the topic a call to Witnessess,the line about believing to be in the Truth doesn't mean that we are,can equally apply to being a Seventh Day Adventist,can't it? And studying with us for two months is hardly long enough is it? Anyway,you have your beliefs & we have ours. *
elijah_2 9.06.12 - 01:39pm
I am glad you understand it clearly, as you said [quote]: Regarding jewelry in Bible times, not all was viewed as pagan, and even Jehovah himself uses it in a FIGURATIVE WAY. NOT LITERAL. This is am important point that should not be missed. Both from Biblical record and studies of ancient unholy religious practices Jewelry wearing; especially the wearing of earrings and other body piercing jewels had their roots in Paganism.
Are you really telling me that Jehovah God endorse Body piercing; whether Christians or Worldlians piercing various body parts and hang various Jewels from their bodies? God himself said, You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: Leviticus 19:28 ESV
And as I have made mentioned of earlier the piercing of the ear, the nose and other body parts was a ancient practices uses by cultic religions especially in Africa as a means of appeasing the gods; their pagan gods. *
elijah_2 9.06.12 - 03:45pm
As you also mentioned [quote] We view saluting a flag as an idolatrous act, and have been persecuted by nationalists because they don't understand the issue.
According to Wikipedia Idolatry is a pejorative term for the worship of an idol, a physical object such as a cult image, as a god, or practices believed to verge on worship, such as giving undue honour and regard to created forms other than God.
According to the online freedictionary Idolatry is the worship of idols; the worship of images that are not God.
Saluting a flag is not worshiping a false god; a flag doesnt represent a deity, so it cannot be compared to the worship of images of Buddha, Vishnu, Brahman, Sheva or Crishna the images that are found in the temples around the world. Those images represents the god or gods, but it is not the god themselves; thus, it is considered idolatry. But Flag is not a representation of a god or gods; thus, in saluting a flag it cannot be idolatry. *
elijah_2 9.06.12 - 09:33pm
Furthermore you also mentioned [quote] Then if wearing jewelry & eating meat does not prevent people from salvation, then no need to encourage the opposite, since God would not view it as an issue.
As it relates to eating meats as in flesh; research as shown that a vegetarian diet as oppose a meat diet is the best diet for people. One of the key points in the research emphasizes that people that has a vegetarian diet normally lives alot longer than those that includes flesh eating in their diet. Therefore; for health reasons the fellowship I belong to encourages a vegetarian diet over a diet that includes flesh. However, if a person still wants to continue eating flesh, then its their choice and they will be saved like a vegetarian. Their will be flesh eaters inside and outside the kingdom; so too their will be vegetarian inside and outside the kingdom. God is not saving people by their diet. The issue about encouraging a vegetarian diet is an health issue, not a salvation issue. *
halman 11.06.12 - 10:38am
Wrong,though Jehovah speaks figuritavely about decking Jerusalem with jewelry,it shows it wasn't wrong if it was literal. Also it's not wrong for women to wear earrings. Also it's making cuts in the flesh like the pagans did,which the scripture speaks of.Yes,it includes tattoos.We don't get tattos after learning the Truth on the matter,though those who already had them, either get them removed if they can afford it or cover sometimes with either clothing or cream. Besides,that was their past life and they no longer continue in it. As for idolatry and saluting flags...wrong.Any undue worshipful honour is idlatry.It doesn't have to be an idol god to commit idolatry.People make gods of film stars,music stars,sports stars,political leaders etc. and even oneself as regards fleshly appetite or desires ie. whose God is their belly-Philippians 3:19 KJV,and For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ,but their own belly;..- Romans16:18 KJV So,anything or anyone can be made a 'god' thereby commiting of idolatry.Is the baking of cakes wrong? Only when used in worshipful honour such as pagan festivals,like the Israelites did in Jeremiah 7:17. So,saluting a flag or a person is an idolatrous act. Bowing before a person of distinction isn't,such as the examples of the king,high priest,prophet,elder relative,or even strangers asan expression of courteous regard. *
elijah_2 20.06.12 - 06:24pm
You said the wearing of earrings is not wrong therefore; if something is NOT wrong then it MUST be right. My friend i told before, and i am going to tell you again: the wearing of earrings and nose jewels comes DIRECTLY from Paganism. The Ancient Regions use to pierce there body parts for the purpose of appeasing the gods. Wearing body piercing Jewell is more idolatrous than saluting a flag if you really think it through. *
halman 27.06.12 - 07:02pm
And I'm telling you young man ;) Nose rings and earrings were worn by Judean women. Again,look at the word I posted and context showing ear or nose. Rebekah wore a nosering,though the KJV says earring on the face. This is incorrect since ears are on the side of the head. Many translations say nosering- Genesis 24:47. Wearing these items was not condemned by Jehovah. He condemned the Judean women for their haughtiness,and said they would be stripped of all their finery,in Isaiah 3:16-26. Noserings and earrings are mentioned amongst the finery. Again,Jehovah would not have used these to describe himself beautifying Jerusalem,if he condemned it.- Isaiah 16:12. Today,our women can wear earings whether pierced or clip on.Noserings are viewed more as a worldly thing because of pop culture such as punk,metal,goth rock music and lifestyles. You should go to our website and checkout beliefs and A-Z topics ;) And yes,saluting flags/emblems is idolatrous. I come from an army family background,so know how they are viewed. ;) As for other things pagan....trinity doctrine. *
